Church then and now

Subject: Re: Church then and now Tue May 13, 2008 12:16 pm

Good point Julie that Heaven and Hell should not be a motivator. My two biggest motivators are 1. my son, who I want to be a good example for and 2. I want to be a good Christian because I believe that is what God deserves as he has always been a good Father to me, whether I deserved it or not.

If Heaven was my only motivator, then I would try to be good for my own personal gain. I'm not going to lie and say that I don't think about the fact that I want to go to Heaven when I die and that I hope God deems me worthy. But I know that salvation is not works based, but faith based. It doesn't matter how many good deeds I do, but how strong my faith is. Since my faith is strong, I want to do my best to please the Lord as He has given me so much, I want Him to know how thankful I am.
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Subject: Re: Church then and now Tue May 13, 2008 3:58 pm

I have a question for everyone.. My father in law is a firm believer that you must be baptized to go to heaven. I do not believe that, I believe that if you have excepted him into your life, heart and soul that is all that is needed. Well needless to say my father in law goes ballestic when this topic is brought up.

Subject: Re: Church then and now Tue May 13, 2008 5:50 pm

Is there a scripture that actually says "thou must be baptized in water" or something like that? I'm not sure if there is or not. I just thought that Jesus was baptized with water, so the church somehow turned it around and said since Jesus was, therefore everyone else had to be.

And if baptism is all it takes, there are tons of people out there who get baptized and don't know the meaning of what they're doing. Yes, there are the people who do it knowingly and intentionally, but there are others who just do it because it's a cultural thing. An example would be Catholocism with the sprinkling of babies.

I myself got baptized when I was 12 or 13 just because there was a wave of people in my youth group at the time getting baptized. I did it out of peer pressure and to fit in at church. There was a lot of pressure on me from others in the youth group and also our youth minister. Everyone was asking me when I was going to get baptized, so I did just to get them off my back.

Yes, I believed in Jesus and everything, but I did it for the wrong reasons.

So would that mean I'm going to heaven just because I put on a white gown and had our preacher dip me under the water? In my opinion, no.

I think as long as you believe and try to do right the best you can, it matters more than if you're dipped under the water.

But if anyone can give me an exact scripture that specifically says we must be baptized, please do and prove me wrong. I am simply unaware of any scripture that says that.

Subject: Re: Church then and now Wed May 14, 2008 8:55 am

There are many different scriptures that say different ways to get into heaven. Below are a couple of the ones that were driven into my head all my life:

Acts 2:38 is the one that CofC use most - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

John 14:6 - I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

The problem with the scriptures lie in how we interpret them. Plus they contradic themselves. I have never read one passage that says, "here are the steps to get into heaven". There is really nothing definitive about the Bible but that Jesus is the Christ and the only Son of God. There are even 2 different creations if you look closely!

Anyway...I just was giving a scripture or two as requested. I don't know who will be awarded time in Heaven...and I am certainly not one to judge. And because of this unknown, I am just doing the best I can here without thinking about the "great by and by". Besides, I have had someone approach me with the thought of "what if this is our Heaven?" Although I do like to believe in the pearly gates, that thought helped me live my life for the now and make the best out of what I have here!

All this is making me think of one of my favorite song lyrics: I swear there ain't no heaven and I pray there ain't no hell.

Subject: Re: Church then and now Wed May 14, 2008 10:17 am

Thanks Julie for those passages. I'm not exactly as well read with scriptures as I used to be.

Well, so that being said - and this is just a general question for whoever wants to put in their 2 cents - what would you say about my baptism situation? I'm not going to get offended by anything anyone says, I'm just interested to know what people think.

Yes, I was baptized, I orginally did it for the wrong reasons out of peer pressure, but would you say that I've already "paid my dues" in that area, so to speak? Or would someone recommend I got baptized again?

I really don't know. This is such a confusing topic.

Subject: Re: Church then and now Wed May 14, 2008 10:37 am

David...I am going to give you three different things I have heard in my life on this topic:

1. Don't be rebaptized cause Jesus only died for us once...the repentence should cover you now (this comes from an old youth minister when I was questioning things myself).

2. Do it if you feel that you need to show that symbolism again (my grandma is ultra conservative and she was baptized twice).

3. Why not? I am going to do it just to cover my butt. (The "just in case" factor was a big thing with my college buds)

Ultimately it depends on what you believe. Do you believe you need to be baptized in order to get to heaven? Do you believe that you will be punished because you were "too young"? Don't you think if you got re-baptized again this year...that you wouldn't be questioning your wisdom 10-20 years from now? We all grow and change...that will be never ending.

Just some thoughts.

Subject: Re: Church then and now Wed May 14, 2008 5:20 pm

From what I have read its not so much the baptism as the faith in Christ and in the gospel.
Check out
1.Cor 15:2, Rom 1:16 and 1Cor 1:14-17
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Subject: Re: Church then and now Thu May 15, 2008 8:37 am

The thief on the cross. He told Jesus moments before his death that he believed in Him and Jesus told him that he would be with the Father that very night. He was not Baptized. Baptism is important for following Christ, I would recommend it highly, but it won't bar you from Heaven.
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Subject: Re: Church then and now Thu May 15, 2008 9:00 am

Why is everyone so concerned with Heaven anyway? Is it because the thought of eternal hell scares you so badly?

Like DaVinci suggested, I am not going to worry about the afterlife because we haven't a clue what really happens. Why can't we concentrate on being good people because it is beneficial in the present day?!?

Subject: Re: Church then and now Thu May 15, 2008 9:04 am

I don't know about the rest of us, but my response to that was in the first post of this page. I am concerned about the afterlife, though. It's pretty important to me. Say I live to be 70. Eternity>70. Much>
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Subject: Re: Church then and now Thu May 15, 2008 9:32 am

Oh I know that it is going to concern people...but I try not to think about it because who knows if I am doing what is required of me to get accepted into the awesome club that is Heaven. I am just always curious why so many make it a focal point of their spiritual lives.

It's a loop that never ends (kinda like when 102.5 played the Macarena for 24 hours). What should I do to get into Heaven? Well you can do a, b, and c but you still don't know how you will be judged.

Subject: Re: Church then and now Thu May 15, 2008 9:38 am

Yea, you're right. If you are completely comfortable with your spiritual life, you should not worry about it. You should be pretty secure about where you are going.
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Subject: Re: Church then and now Mon May 19, 2008 10:43 pm

I have gotten a handful of PMs from people concerned that I stopped posting here because I was put off by some comments. Just to clear it up, I have enjoyed reading all of this. Even when I haven't been posting. I am pretty impossible to offend. I just don't want to be the gal who repeats herself when she's run out of original thoughts.

On the afterlife, Im with Allen. It's pretty important to me too. The flip side of that pancake is that I don't really feel that we can have a firm grasp on what God truly demands of us, and therefore I figure that if I'm being the best me I can be, that's all I can do. So I care, I just don't spend a ton of time calculating my entrance requirements.

Subject: Re: Church then and now Tue May 20, 2008 8:19 am

Skyla, is it the flip side of a potato pancake?

Its to difficult to imagine for me. Since I can't get a hold of eternity in my mind than I ignore it. I tried for years to imagine eternity in Heaven or Hell or whatever. I decided to capitol one my life. Do what I want now and pay for it later.
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The world is going crazy, I am just cutting in line.

Subject: Re: Church then and now Wed May 21, 2008 6:12 pm

Ahhh...there are many sides to the potato pancake. Very Happy

Capitol One it? You need Dave Ramsey for the soul!